My Palace in Dallas: Chase Rowan and Sawyer Skipper

“Solitude requires you to move past reacting to information created by other people and focus instead on your own thoughts and experiences – wherever you happened to be”

— Cal Newport, Digital Minimalism

Hello folks, did y’all have a good year? 2023 has been nothing but a wild rollercoaster ride for me especially now we are at the final article for the year! I have been nothing but blessed by the relationships I’ve made this year, through friends, this project, or just random encounters. I am forever grateful to everyone who took the time to participate or read this little endeavor of mine. If you’re reading this I hope you are winding down and enjoying everything that is around you — People and space alike, especially your home. Has your space changed since last year? Did it feel more like home after a full calendar year?

I started My Palace in Dallas during the height of the pandemic, and it was born from pure curiosity: I want to know, I want to see, and, most importantly, I want to document what the people around me have become after these unprecedented years. They can be artists, comedians, or they can also be the people you meet on the street—which is quite hard cause supposedly people in Dallas don’t walk at all. So, what is it that they do? This project delves into their stories and, as the name suggests, explores their Palace in Dallas.

Without further ado, allow me to introduce you to Chase Rowan and Sawyer Skipper. What can I say about them aside from being some of the most talented people I've known? Surprisingly we have been running into each other quite often since we are neighbors living downtown so when they are looking for someone to document their place before moving out I have to say yes! We chatted about being in Dallas, their journey to where they are now, and what home means to them in this busy city making amazing works along the way.

Hello guys! We finally made this happen! Thank you for asking me to help document this place and always a great time running into you at the weekend cafe haha. Before I bomb you two with questions, would you like to tell people a bit about yourself? Who are you and what is it that you do?

C (Chase Rowan): My name is Chase Rowan, I am an artist and creative director. I work from home, make art, graphic design, and art direction.
S (Sawyer Skipper): My name is Sawyer Skipper, I am a filmmaker, it’s all I’ve ever known, ever did, and what I’m doing today!

Your work pan across so many different genres and format, from newsletter to music video to own film project and chairs, you’ve done so much with so many here, now, could you tell me what was that journey like for you guys and how did y’all get to where you are now?

S: It is and will always be an ongoing journey for me. I jumped into directing full-time three years ago in the middle of the pandemic, I’ve been doing videos from high school all the way through college which I then dropped out of and worked at the church like many Texan videographers do. 4 years later I decided to leave during the pandemic to pursue directing full-time, that was always the dream and what I’ve been able to do. A huge part of my journey was working really hard on projects that came my way and everything else was good timing, the friends I met along the way and the doors opened as one thing led to another.

I lived south of Dallas in my own little bubble not knowing anybody here, Chase has been my connection to the Dallas community, and everything kind of just blossomed after knowing him, so I will also say he was my gateway to the Dallas creative community too.

C: Yeah I feel like after I introduced him to some people he ended up hanging out with them or got closer to them more than I do which is kinda cool. Sawyer and I met right when he left the church and a few months before moving into this place, so it was really cool how everything worked out in the way it is.

S: We became best buds pretty quickly.

C: There was a twinkle in his eyes when he finally moved out of Waxahachie and lived in downtown Dallas, which I didn’t really have anymore after being here for a few years. That energy in turn reignites the excitement I have for this city too which was cool.

C: I feel like I stumbled into creative directing as something I do day to day. I started taking photos on iPhones in the age when technology became a huge thing. I remember thinking this was really cool and had a natural eye for it too. So I started with photography, taking photos of farmlands or outdoor landscapes while living in Nebraska. I got sick of that place and moved back down to Dallas and started getting into street photography, you know, getting on the highest building, dangling my sneakers on the edge, and all that.

I later realized photography was something I had to pair with graphic design cause what really interested me was magazines and print materials. I gravitate more toward editorial fashion, and high-end marketing ads so I stopped doing photography solely and incorporated graphic design, which I was also really bad at cause I’ve never done that before. Things then snowballed into doing more graphic design work and less photography. I started painting for a year after graphic design got boring. What I did was a very specific style of painting at first, it was gritty, smudgy, and aggressive, and later on, it became very minimal and stripped. After doing so for a while I felt painting might not be my thing either so I moved on to sculptures and installation. Throughout all these transitions, I slowly had this realization that I really enjoy working on these mediums and am good at some of them, but my favorite part of doing any of these is the ideation of it and seeing it come together and not necessarily the part of actually doing it.

I knew of the creative director role but I never really understood what it was or if it’s something I can go after. I just love bringing an idea onto the table and taking other people with me trying to figure out how it works. It wasn’t until a year and a half ago that I realized this is my bread and butter and other aspects are secondary after my idea came to be.

A long and convoluted answer I know but I really did stumble into this role, I tried so many things and ended up doing this which is pretty cool because I still get to touch on all of these aspects if I want to during the directing process.

It reminds me of how you see people rotate through different departments before moving on to the directing level of things. Knowing what each aspect entails makes things a lot easier cause you speak their language.

C: I think that’s why I like trying so many things, cause I noticed how it’s not uncommon when creative directors thrive in their role but have never done photography, this made it hard for them to talk to photographers at times since they can’t get into their headspace. I’m more like someone who enjoys understanding everything. I love figuring things out and if I get into something I often make it into a pillar or my whole personality for a month, once I give it a really hard try I will know whether or not it’s for me or stuck around and find a way to incorporate it into what I do more.

You talked about leaving Waxahachie and moving to Dallas after doing videography for the church there, what did you have to do to kick things off here in Dallas?

S: Directing was always something I wanted to do since high school but I was too afraid to fully commit to it, there really isn't a road map for that and the idea of financial ruin and failure was pretty scary. I played it safe, did the whole went to college thing, and dropped out with a job lined up in church. After a year of managing videos and hiring people to shoot them, they finally let me do one and decided I wasn’t too bad. I think looking back even when I wasn’t fully committed to directing I always had my hand in the video world in some form of fashion, I was a videographer and photographer and that’s where I started out. After COVID hit I realized there is no such thing as a concrete job, nothing is really certain even freelance, so I left and right when I was about to leave I had an opportunity to work with a friend filming a TV pilot on a boat. I think it was a reality TV fishing show.

How it happened was pretty insane, me and my friend came up with a number of how much it would cost cause we were like if I’m going to be stuck on a boat for 4 days in the middle of the ocean, I’ll need to be paid. I was going to figure out how to be a barista to make money in between before the fishing TV job came along, this random rich Italian family found my friend on Instagram and he asked me to be a part of it.

I ended up writing, directing, and producing a TV pilot. To prepare for it I went through a whole bunch of articles and podcasts on how to make a TV show cause I’ve never done that before. To this day I still think it was one of the best-paying gigs I’ve ever had. We just named numbers we think would make sense and the Italian family just went ahead and ran with it.

So, the pilot was my first gig as a freelance director, and from there, doors kept opening up for me. I worked with the band Little Images after being connected through Chase, they ended up getting signed a year later so I’m also working with a label! I had some passion projects of my own and I think making works for myself when I wasn’t working attracted more opportunities. Of course, it hasn’t been easy with how unorthodox my journey is and all its ups and downs but that’s how I stayed going and now I’m even doing bigger commercials. A guy who interned under me in the church I worked for threw my name out in a meeting when they needed a director for their commercial, they checked out my Instagram and decided to work with me. No one really has the same path into anything, my path won’t be repeated and neither will yours. I don’t think there’s really ever a blueprint to follow, even now I don’t think I’m making it, I am surviving and working my hardest to stay in the game.

With both of you being in freelance for a while now after making that leap of faith, was there ever a moment when you realized you could foresee yourself or confident doing this in the long run?

S: If there’s any moment I can say “I can do this” it probably wasn’t until last year, after two years into this I think I understand the industry and what I can do skills-wise enough to know I can do it. There really wasn’t a defining moment for this but more like a continuously growing timeline.

C: I was thinking about it while Sawyer was answering and I think I’ve always had a pretty confident personality so I always thought to myself “Oh I can do X, Y, or Z if I want to, and probably can figure out a way to do it.” I don’t know if I ever had that AHA moment, but I definitely had a handful of re-realising moments every three months or so. Every three months, like even right now as we sit here and talk I think I understand what I’m doing and am pretty good at it, which assured me in a “There’s room to grow but for now I understand what I’m working on, how to work in an efficient way and give good results.” mindset. But maybe in another three months, I will run into a situation that is overwhelming or stressful when things don’t work out as I have hoped.

“God if this is what it is going to be like then this is HARD” would go through my head, but inevitably someone will come along and explain it to me. As I continue to put my best foot forward and keep on trying, I will inevitably run into people and our conversation would reassure me that I’m doing something right cause these people are way better than me and I’m getting advice that is super relevant.

I don’t think I’ve ever had a moment when I’d go “I can do [blank]”, but more like thinking I love doing this and I’ll find a way to live off of it, hopefully. I think within the last four months I’ve learned that I’m way better at things I never thought I’d be doing and a lot worse at things I thought I was good at.

Like how you’d be curious about their letterbox account when you meet a film fanatic, I’m also super curious about your media outlet and where you usually get your inspiration from.

C: I’ll be completely honest I don’t read a lot. I read my bible and very in-depth architecture articles and that’s pretty much all I read, which I probably should read more and it’s pretty funny considering my obsession with print material and am writing a newsletter. I would go through my bible in the morning when I wake up and if I find time in the evening I'll sit down and do a deep dive on architectural materials or design theory.

In terms of media outlets, for the past three years, I’ve had a strong grip on making sure I don’t have Instagram on my phone, and if I do, it’ll probably only be there for two days at a time. Not because I’m super regimented but it’s because I know I won’t if I had it on there. So for the last three years, I’ve been one of those people who signs in and out of Instagram, which isn’t that much better but at least I won’t check it all the time. Even with that, Instagram would still be a main outlet for me cause I’ll sign in through my laptop and scroll through my feed that way.

Also, people who are better at things than me. I would ask them for presentations they made or projects they’ve done. I’ll look at their references, ask how they brought this project to life or how they landed this client if I know them already. I’m a very talkative and personable person and I think I kind of replaced diving into literature with people who know what they’re doing. Like if you’ve already read or done something, I should just ask you and you probably could condense 400 pages into a 20-minute conversation, and give it to me in a way I would understand better than reading or diving into it.

I do have ambitions of getting into reading more cause I do buy books and I read every now and then but my core intake isn’t really large.

S: I watch a lot of movies, I got away from doing that and ended up being chronically online the past few years, then I realized that as an artist I’m only as good as what I’m feeding myself, and I felt like it started to reflect on my work. So I took a good look at what my intake was as a creative and it turns out I’ve been eating a lot of fast food content and not actual meals. Since realizing that, I’ve shifted back to watching films almost every night now. I also try and find behind-the-scenes to get a better idea of how directors operate on set cause it’s not exactly an art form that is teachable, it's more about your taste and vision so you have to make sure you are exuding them when you create.

Those are mostly what I consume now, film theory breakdowns, video essays, and movies. I don’t read a lot either *laughs

C: I like this question a lot cause it’s really telling how over-saturated fast food content is. When you asked what your main media intake is I was almost stomped for a second, I feel like all I did was stare at a screen but was I really absorbing anything?

I like what Sawyer said, how your work is really about what your intake is. I am really lucky and blessed to have a day job where my day-to-day is to absorb really cool stuff and I feel like that helps a lot. In a way I am forced to look for materials I would find interesting even if I stumbled upon them outside of work. Sawyer was not exaggerating either, he’s been watching films pretty much every night for a month now.

S: Oh yeah, every genre everything. Animated, documentary, art house, horror, all of the above. I used to do it when I was younger too, I would watch a movie every single day. One day I think I woke up and realized from my own doing, social media started whittling away and became such a large part of my artistic influence, and it wasn’t even what I would really appreciate as art. Whenever I work on a project, I try to facilitate more of an artful mindset so I’m never scraping the bottom of a barrel or trying to build momentum into creating. I found my thought process became “Oh I’m directing a music video, let’s start looking for cool stuff” instead of already being dialed into the zone. So that’s what I’m trying to do with watching films and keep that river flowing more consistently so it’s not such a dry well. If I can use a bunch of different ways to describe that.

C: That’s a bunch of reservoir synonyms you just used.

C: I think there is a huge difference between being excited to share something you’ve done online and building a framework around the moment you share it. Nowadays whenever I finish a project whatever medium it may be, it comes to me more as a secondary thought that I can share this somewhere. I do get excited about sharing and to his point, social media do influence everything but I think there is still a very clear difference between “this would look good on the feed” and “genuinely getting excited to post about something”.

If you can only use Instagram as a platform to share then it is a brilliant tool actually. It’s not that the app itself is flawed but how we use it falsely and it screwed us over by being addicted to it. I felt like it’s a relevant point to bring up to what Sawyer said cause I definitely went through a phase where I created to post and was part of the fast food pipeline.

It’s been three years since the pandemic hit and I am always in awe at how many people rose up and did many incredible things during and after. What did you do to stay centered and sane? Did any of those new habits carry over now that things are back to normal?

S: I don’t know, I had a pretty unconventional COVID experience. I think being in a small town in Texas made it feel like it lasted half as long as anybody else. I knew people with tough situations and am grateful to not have had those, but I’ll say because it’s Texas I didn’t really feel the differences were there and I don’t think I have a proper answer for that being in Waxahachie at the time.
C: I was still working at a marketing agency at the time so if anything that really changed and affected me was boredom. My routine remained the same since I was already working from home so I was just insanely bored and fed up all the time. The one habit that started during covid and I lost it over time and once it’s gone I realized how much I valued it was getting up early. I would get up early in the morning during COVID-19 and go on a run into downtown Dallas, It was super helpful that I got my girlfriend’s apartment to go to as a change of scenery too.

As an incredible creative you guys are working on things that transcend geographical boundaries yet are so close to our daily lives, I’m sure you have your fair share of traveling experience and exposure to different art/fashion scenes across different cities. What do you think sets Dallas apart from all the other creative hubs like NY, and LA?

S: I think from my experience, everyone is really supportive. It might not be as big as the creative community goes but everybody seems to be super supportive and down to be involved in some form of fashion, we’re all hungry and open to collaboration. It’s also way more laid back which I think can be a nice thing not fully consumed by the business you’re in, which is good if not all of your friends are in the same exact industry. For me, it’s been nice to do what I love and have a whole group of friends that aren’t involved in that world at all, I can learn from them or not think about the work I’m doing when I’m with them. Dallas allows that equal chill and creative scene to coexist here.

I will also say that people here are doing amazing things all the time and you won’t feel like it’s being shoved in your face, I like that about Dallas.

C: I’m going to go out on a limb and say the creative scene here is way bigger than we realized I just never truly, to be honest, made an attempt to tap into the creative scene here. We just recently found 10 galleries nested in this one little district and we both agreed when we left that there’s a lot more going on here than we realized.

Factually the scene here is way smaller than LA or NY which is totally fine, but it is probably bigger than I even know at the moment. I just never felt the need to actively try to get in with it in a sense.

S: Yes I agree it’s bigger than we realized and it’s also not fully in your face.

C: Yeah it’s definitely not as prominent. I mean Dallas is a city with an infrastructure that’s more catered around business, there is an art culture and people do appreciate it but people here appreciate it in a different way. With what I’ve done on contemporary art and gallery work, talking to people working in the realm, it’s not wrong just not ideal in my opinion for creatives, I feel like a lot of people here who are into art look for pieces that can become an asset or fits well in an interior setting and not collecting just for the love of the craft. Not saying nobody here collects art for the love of it, but I think there aren’t as many as in NY where people will drop 50 grand on crazy pieces for the sake of love whereas here, there are maybe only a couple thousand total scattered around DFW that would spend money just to own it and not see it as investment.

To answer what sets Dallas apart, what I’ve picked up on is that the fact it’s not as prominent or front-facing, what I do respect about the people in Dallas is this southern hospitality, and communal approach to it and people really want the scene to be more front-facing here. Everyone including the both of us, said plenty of times that we wish the art community was more front-facing here. That’s like a shared interest and everyone in the industry really does want it and unfortunately, I think the fact that it’s not as prominent is the only thing holding Dallas back from becoming a huge creative hub. Inevitably though, in another 5-10 years with how many people moving in here, I think it would be fun to see what this place looks like.

S: It’s a sneaky city that flies under the radar which can be a blessing and a curse.

C: But people who are into it will find it, they will find you if you are consistent and intentional in the work you put out there.

Are you two Dallas locals? As two creatives with such talent and living in this city, having spent quite some time finding your creative identity, and building up a place you call home, what do you think of this city?

S: I love it and I don’t know if I’ve ever hated it. I think I’d say I love it and sometimes I would be a bit irked by the city and back to loving it.
C: I became quite disenchanted by it at times but I always fall back in love with it.
S: I appreciated how easy it is to create here. You have to be proactive with creating in Dallas, in other cities I feel like it moves you to do stuff but it’s also hard to get things out into those major markets. Here, it’s so much easier to make things and this is what I love about DFW it’s easier in comparison to make but it’s hard to find the drive or the energy to do so sometimes.
C: People here are so willing to be like “Sure fuck it just come do it here” and open up their space for you. When I was shooting sculptures, business owners or storefront owners were always happy to open up their space for you to work on something creative. That is something I think bigger hubs do not have, you will either have to pay or know THE PERSON to hook you up with locations and whatnot.
I genuinely love Dallas, even if sometime in the future I move away just to switch things up I would always want to have a place to come back to in Dallas.

As I look around, I can see a lot of your taste in a tangible form! I can’t even begin picking out a favorite one so now the hard part is, what would you say is your most prized possession?

C: My favorite thing in the apartment is probably the brick strip and this giant concrete beam. I feel like this is the only thing that separates our rooms and the living area, it stoops low into the kitchen and rises back up there. I also love how the bricks were not plastered over or painted white, for years and years since I was 18 or 19 I’ve always wanted to live somewhere that has exposed bricks.

I also do this thing where I would trace things with my finger as I’m looking at them so these black pipes or the outline of the concrete floors are what I love about this place. Even when I’m sitting on the couch I would trace these jagged corners on the floor with my fingers. When we moved in I didn’t like the concrete section disrupting the wooden floor look but now I love it cause it feels like an interesting rug where our living room sits.

My favorite item selfishly is the chair I built just because it pops so much. Sawyer and I also built this shelf with the same wood from the chair but with different grain. I loved that the chair is the piece of furniture that fits perfectly here and is the only pop of bright blue on top of the greenery.

This bench is something I really liked and I plan on making the top thicker so it’s obvious you should sit on it and add tiny legs to it. Maybe I’ll paint the inner side of the shelf blue and make it more like a set with the chair I made.

I know I’m on my fourth thing but I really like this window. I always sit in this corner or this chair to work, which is purely based on how much battery I have left on my laptop cause charger location, but there is this perfect beam of light shining through every day and I like it a lot.

S: I would say the statue is my number 1.

C: Oh yeah he bought that like right when we moved in here too, bring it up!

S: I got this from Marfa. It’s solid bronze and I don’t know why I liked it so much since it’s a naked dude but when I moved downtown I had this surge of energy and decided to go to Marfa on a whim. I saw this and talked it down to half the price, here feel this, it’s solid bronze and I like it when art has a weight to it. There’s something about it, I like the idea where I can have a piece forever and not that big so I can tuck it away or follow me wherever I move.

C: My version of that is this *walk towards another statue*.

I got this from an artist called Chandler McLellan from Wyoming, he hand-made this out of wood and glazed the entire thing. The pedestals were from when I had this idea for my art that requires them so I ordered two but I didn’t go through with it after how much the entire plan would cost. I randomly found this guy’s work when I was in New York and came across this last piece from his commissioned work, but since this was a commission piece that didn’t get chosen he let it go for $300 when it usually goes for $1,000. I had no money at the time after moving here and I overdrafted my account by like $8 for this. This has stayed in this spot for the past two years and never moved now *laughs.

S: These two pedestals made our apartment look way different, having two gallery-type pedestals in each corner.

And we are almost at the bottom of my list of Qs for today! I have one more before wrapping it up! For those who are interested in getting into this business or starting something of their own like you guys did. What suggestions or advice you would like to give them or is there anything you wish you’d known sooner?

S: I wish I had jumped in earlier. I spent 4 or 5 years living in my own bubble outside of Dallas intimated by the idea and I wish I would’ve just reached out to people who I thought were super talented way earlier cause everybody here is, again, down to do stuff.

The moment I opened up Dallas opened up to me.

C: I would say learn the things you think you can get away without knowing as soon as you possibly can. I always avoided certain design principles or software cause I’ve been able to get away with it without knowing them. Now I’m learning everything I should’ve known three or four years ago and I think it’s so important to bite the bullet and learn what everybody you look up to knows. You need to face the fact and understand it’s the golden standard there for a reason. It’s good that you have your own method and approaches but I now realize a lot of things I’ve done are out of habit and not out of craft.

It’s a long answer but in short: don’t be so eager and excited to get into what you want to do, and end up brushing over what you NEED to do.

To wrap this interview up, also because I am curious personally, what’s on the horizon for you two? Are there any “Big things coming” in the works for y’all? What would you like the world (whichever random soul stumbled upon this article) to know about?

S: Who knows hah, If you’re reading this now you’ll know my name is Sawyer Skipper so if you look it up online you’ll find out whatever I’m doing and see my works. That’s all I can ask for, someone taking the time to watch something I made.

C: I don’t really know if I want to plug anything here. If you’ve gotten this far you probably know who I am so I’ll say I really like what Benjamin Edgar is doing with his work right now. I think what he’s doing now is worth looking into so if you’re reading this now go look up Benjamin Edgar’s most recent collection in 2023, it’s a very interesting take on design so I’ll put this here.